Armenian Diaspora Newspaper: Interview of Goar Vartanyan, Veteran KGB Illegal Intelligence Officer

The Russian-language Armenian diaspora newspaper Noyev Kovcheg [Noah’s Ark] published an interview of Goar Vartanyan, a former KGB illegal intelligence officer, in March 2016. Together with her husband Gevork, she was tasked with intelligence assignments in numerous countries for more than three decades. Their identities were declassified by the SVR in 2000. Goar Vartanyan died in November 2019 at the age of 93. Below is my English translation of the interview available only on this blog.

Elena Knyazeva: Former Illegal Intelligence Officer Goar Vartanyan - You Can Accomplish Anything You Want, The Main Thing Is to Know Why You Are Doing It

Noyev Kovcheg March 16-31, 2016

February 17 marks the 90th anniversary of the birth of the legendary intelligence officer Gevork Andreyevich Vartanyan, known mainly due to the Teheran operation, when, thanks to his group, the assassination attempt on the heads of three Allied states - Stalin, Roosevelt, and Churchill - was prevented. But this is only one of his many exploits. It is said that when one of the top Soviet leaders read the submission for conferring the title of Hero of the Soviet Union on Gevork Andreyevich, he asked in amazement: “Did he really do all this?!”, the chairman of the KGB of the USSR replied: “Of course, but not by himself! With his wife... “

[His wife] Goar Levonovna was at that time awarded the Order of the Red Banner – one of the highest [Soviet] state awards. Today she is our interlocutor. [The interview was conducted by Elena Knyazeva].

Goar Levonovna, since your name was declassified in 2000, many articles, interviews, and books have been published about you and [even] a movie was made. And yet, let’s start from the very beginning, with Tehran in the late 1930s. Was that when your family moved there from Armenia?

- Yes, I was about six years old, and Tehran became my hometown, the city of my childhood. There I went to school, first to an Armenian school, I studied there for three years, then it was closed. I wanted to go to a French school, but it was already overcrowded, so I was sent to an Iranian school. I graduated from the 12^th grade [high school] and got a very good education.

- Did you study in Farsi? And do you know the Iranian culture from the inside?

- Yes. Farsi became my mother tongue. As for something specifically Iranian... Tehran was then a completely European city, there were no veils. On the contrary, the shah prohibited the veils. Nobody could board a bus or a trolley with a veil. And then they brought them back again. I have the best memories of Iran and Iranians. They were very respectful of us, Armenians, and of the people of any other nationality as well. I had many Iranian friends, they are good people.

- And there, in Tehran, you met your future husband ...

- There was really no official acquaintance. One might say that we grew up together. They were just friends of my older brother and he was one of them... I was 13, and he was 15. We ran back and forth as a gang, around our courtyard, into the street.

- So, there was no love at first sight?

- No, we were just good friends. Then, when I was 15 or 16, a kind of romance began to take shape. For birthdays, New Year’s Eve celebrations, other holidays, we would get together with our whole company at home, we sang and danced. And gradually [romantic] relations between us began to develop.

- At the age of 16, Gevork Andreyevich already started working for [Soviet] intelligence, he organized a group of his peers. Tell me, was this some kind of a romantic, teenage game, or was it a serious matter, driven by conviction?

- It was very serious. My brother was in that group, then I joined, too. I understood that we were helping the Homeland. Because that was a tough time... When the war began and our cities surrendered one by one, we listened to the radio reports with tears in our eyes. We had a huge map, and we moved flags on it, and all the time there were reports: surrender, surrender, surrender... And we felt as if we were there where this was taking place. And then, when the course of the war changed, when our cities began to be liberated, we moved our flags again. This was how we lived. We were a part of it.

- And how did Gevork decide to take you, a girl with pigtails, into a reconnaissance group?

- It didn’t happen right away. He had his eye on me and first gave me small assignments. And then, more serious ones. The guys worked a lot, much more than me. And, also, at that time, in Iran, a girl couldn’t stay on the street alone for a long time, especially in the evening. They protected me well, I was the only girl among them. They were very kind, all from good families, they knew each other very well and trusted each other - and this was very important. They were all physically fit and worked well as a team. When you know that you are doing something important, something that’s necessary, you already behave differently. You can no longer live irresponsibly, you live for a goal.

- You were called the “light cavalry” because you all rode bicycles...

- Yes, our chief, intelligence officer Ivan Agayants, called us as a joke. After all, we had no cars or motorcycles, only bicycles. And more often than not, this is exactly how we conducted our reconnaissance [surveillance], because you couldn’t run after the other side on foot. And being on bicycles was less suspicious. But when necessary, we also went on foot.

- Yes... Before the interview I was walking to your place from our editorial office on the Suvorovsky Square, along the Mir Prospect, to the Astrakhan Lane. And maybe, who knows, someone was doing the surveillance... Or is it an outdated method at today’s level of technological development?

- And why not? I think that it is still being used. Are there alternatives? It has been like that in all countries and it will continue being so. The intelligence officer is always on the alert, but at the same time not to such an extent that you think that you are always being watched. Otherwise, you won’t be able to do any work, and pretty soon you’ll go crazy.

- The Tehran operation was probably the most stressful time in your work in Iran?

- Yes, it was very stressful. After all, they [the leaders] all gathered at the Soviet embassy. And we lived right next to the embassy, ​​in the very center of the city.

- I understand that you can’t disclose to us all the details of your work. But can you still lift the veil a little bit for us, the uninitiated? So, you received the assignment. And…

- We received the assignment, but I was not directly involved in the surveillance. I did the investigations, it was easier for me to do that.

- And what do you mean by investigations?

- An investigation meant that you had to find out where the object [of interest] lived, what he did and when, who he communicated with. You establish his daily routine, his habits... You do this through neighbors, through acquaintances. You know, it was then in Tehran, as in Armenia now, everyone knew each other. This was not Moscow. There, if you wanted, you could find out a lot. But, let’s not go into details. The work went on continuously. In two years, our group tracked down about four hundred people associated with the German intelligence services.

- And during this time Gevork Andreyevich managed to infiltrate the British intelligence school, ended up in prison, you carried him parcels - this is described, in particular, in the film Tehran-43: The True Story. Is the story from the film really true?

- Every film always has a bit of poetic license. At the beginning of the film, there is a scene - Gevork Andreyevich is running barefoot down the street. How could this be?! We didn’t even have any acquaintances who would run barefoot down the street. Or, my mother is at home with some kind of a headscarf. Nothing like that ever happened. But these are just small details. In general, the film is good and many of the events are presented accurately.

- After the war, in 1946, you and Gevork Andreyevich got married, and, according to your biography, soon left for Yerevan?

- We wanted to leave Tehran for Yerevan in 1946. But we were told – you need to stay for another five years. So, we stayed. What else could we do? Indeed, for us, especially for Zhora [Gevork], this was his life. He couldn’t imagine doing anything else. And, in 1951, we left for Yerevan.

- And how did the Soviet Yerevan appear to you after Tehran? Did you easily get accustomed to new realities?

- We knew everything about it. We received [Soviet] magazines and newspapers, we were aware of everything. We were told: “Oh, you know, it’s hard even to get bread right now!” And we answered: “What our people eat, we will eat, too.” Neither I nor my family members saw anything bad [about moving there], we only saw the good. But when we arrived at the Yerevan hotel - we first stopped there - we noticed that the decanter on the table in the hotel room was empty; there was no water in it. I called the hotel employee, he came, took the decanter and went to the toilet. I was confused - why did he go there? Did he want to wash the decanter? But he poured water into it, brought it, put it on the table [and said] “Here’s the water for you. I said: “I don’t drink the water from the tap.” And [he said] “Here we drink from the tap. The Yerevan water is the best!”

- And then you studied five years at the Yerevan Institute of Foreign Languages?

- Yes, I majored in French and George in English, but then I [also] switched to English, because we met so little: his classes were in the morning, and mine in the afternoon. And I wanted us to be together. We graduated from the institute among the best, Zhora was the best student. He was a member of the trade union committee of the Institute, he was well respected.

And it was like that in every place [we lived] ...

- It was his personality, probably, he attracted people, pulled them toward him?

- He was very relaxed. With his actions, his attitude, his kindness, his modesty, he imperceptibly attracted people to himself ... It’s not that he specifically wanted this. That was how he was as a person. He was respected and people appreciated his qualities.

- Well, if he hadn’t had these qualities, he probably wouldn’t have become such a great intelligence officer?

- These were his human qualities. Even if he hadn’t been an intelligence officer, he would still have been a good man. He loved his work and said: “If I were born again, I’d still do the same thing.” These words are now written on his tombstone... He loved his Homeland very much, he loved the Soviet Union, it’s not that he loved Armenia or Russia - for him, they were the same. And he devoted his whole life to this. He worked until the last minute. He was 88 years old when ... he died within 20 days. It’s been two years since he is gone.

- How did he and you get over the collapse of the USSR? Did you think that this might happen, or you didn’t know anything about it?

- No. It was an unexpected blow for everyone. We were on vacation outside the city during those days. After Georgy received news about it [the Soviet breakup], he immediately went to work. But let’s not talk about politics. See what is happening now all over the world, both in America and in Europe. And what is happening in Ukraine…

- You graduated from the institute - and a new stage of your life began?

- We arrived in Moscow, went through a short training there - in truth, we were already experienced intelligence professionals - and left for the West. [And we stayed] for a long time. We worked in different countries, changed citizenship several times, participated in many operations, but the time has not come to talk about it yet.

- And more than once you had to change names, pretend to be other people ... Is it difficult to get used to a new identity?

- No. It is very easy. The more ordinary life you lead, the better your [intelligence] work fares. You just need to live in an ordinary way and have around you ordinary people, friends, have a pleasant environment. When your circle is stable [well-established], then you can go further, and more influential people will be ready to take you in. And then you can go wherever you want and make a contact with those whom you need. There are people who live in isolation – from home to work to home - and their day is over. We never lived like that, we lived openly [surrounded by friends]. You need to be able to say a few words to everyone, to a wide variety of people. This should come to you naturally. [For instance] You just met me, and I invite you for a cup of coffee, and you come.

- Yes, but I know that you are an intelligence officer (laughing).

- I’ve been like that since childhood. We were open-hearted people, and in our house, it was like that, too. If there was no ring at the door, my mother was surprised: no one came by to see us today! What is going on? Here I am doing the same thing. When we moved to this building, no one was friends with each other. And now we - four or five neighbors - are as close as family members. I brought everyone together, I can’t live without that, you know. Life’s meaning to help others, to say something to them, to do something for them.

- Outwardly, your life looked very ordinary, but [at the same time] you sent and received encrypted messages, you were a radio operator, and, after all, your transmitter was installed somewhere...

- Yes, that’s true. The work went on all the time. But it wasn’t anything special... It was simply – our work. Every day I would get up and think - what is today, with whom am I meeting? We would come to Moscow on vacation, we studied [new] languages ​​- both German and Arabic. When necessary, you can do anything. The most important thing is to know why. And if you don’t have that, then everything falls through, nothing will work out. But if you love your country, your Homeland, you can do it. What else do you need? When people don’t live abroad, they do not feel for the Homeland like that. [They complain] “Oh, this is bad, and this is not so good…” Go see how it is [abroad]. There they also complained. When it was difficult for us here, I thought what are they complaining about? They have everything. I was even angry. When we would come here, Georgy would take his wallet and go to the store, as if we had never left. And for them [abroad] all that was unthinkable?! Three people stand in line: “Oh. [This is too much]. Let’s go somewhere else.” Then [compare] to the lines [in the USSR] ... But we were happy: that’s our country. Our life! Of course, we wanted it to be better, it was unpleasant for us that it was like that. Now there is everything, but...

- Yes, there is everything, but something is still missing?

- Yes. But one must hope and believe that everything will be alright. This is what you need to hold on to. If it were not for my family, my friends, the Foreign Intelligence Service (SVR) personnel, who supported me during these two years, I would not have gotten back on my feet at all. I thought that I, too, would go soon after him, and that it was all over... But they didn’t let me fall into despair. I am so lucky to have such devoted people around me. Both here and in Yerevan.

- Do you visit Yerevan often?

- I'm going there in May to be at the unveiling of a memorial plaque at our Institute. They are great! At first they wanted to place it on the house [where we lived], but then they decided - no, it’s better there. Let students see and remember.

- Goar Levonovna, you are still active, you meet with young people and share your experiences?

- Yes, just recently I was at an event at the First Moscow Cadet Corps with the participation of the Moscow Association of Suvorov and Nakhimov Military school graduates and cadets. What wonderful guys they are! I talked to them, they attentively listened to my every word and then they asked so many questions! One young man asked, “What was the best day in your life?” I thought a bit and said: “When Georgy Andreyevich said that he was in love with me.” Then everyone started to applaud! They liked it so much! And I don't know why I said that.

- Did you live in peace and harmony with Gevork Andreyevich?

- Very much so. I am a lucky woman, there was such a great person next to me all my life. We were together all the time. We lived together for 65 years and never quarreled once. Because we discussed everything, talked it through. We loved and respected each other since childhood. I have just returned from the cemetery, I am always so sad when I return from there. There is a monument to him there, it is as if he is looking at you. When you come, it is as if he is greeting you. And when you leave, it is as if he is asking: “Are you leaving already?” It is very difficult for me without him. And it’s difficult not only for me.  Our colleagues in the SVR used to say: “Georgy Andreyevich walked down the corridor – what a great day!” And now they have lost Zhora, they miss him a lot. But, we must live on, we must believe in the best, and never lose hope.

RIA Novosti: Interview of Lyudmila Nuykina, Veteran KGB Illegal Intelligence Officer

On March 7, 2018, the Russian state-owned news agency RIA Novosti published an interview of Lyudmila Nuykina, a former KGB illegal intelligence officer who, together with her husband Vitaly, worked in more than a dozen countries until their return to the USSR in 1986. Her name was officially declassified by the SVR in 2017. Below is my English translation available only on this blog. 

 

Former Illegal Intelligence Officer Lyudmila Nuykina: We Secretly Celebrated March 8 with Pelmeni

 

RIA Novosti March 7, 2018

The name of Russian [Soviet] illegal intelligence officer Lyudmila Nuykina was recently declassified. But what she and her husband, also an illegal intelligence officer, did while working abroad remains classified. However, a number of things can be disclosed. For example, in what way is the wife able to help her husband in this kind of work and even do things he can’t; how women abroad put their dresses on, and whether the attention of other men can affect the work of a female intelligence officer? On the eve of International Women’s Day, this is what the veteran of the Russian Foreign Intelligence Service (SVR) Lyudmila Nuykina told RIA Novosti in an interview.

- Lyudmila Ivanovna, it is believed that intelligence, especially illegal intelligence, is man’s business. But what does it mean to be a female illegal intelligence officer, which character traits are needed?

- It is not only man’s business. Yes, it’s very hard. You have to live the life of another person. And not only to pretend. Illegal intelligence is not a theater stage: you go out for a couple of hours, play a role, and return home. And it isn’t just any job - we served the Fatherland, and therefore, first of all, we had to be patriots and love our Homeland. But a woman working in illegal intelligence needs a special kind of courage if she has children. When my husband and I went abroad, we had to leave our little son Yura behind. It was a very difficult decision for me, especially since I was brought up among the [Russian Orthodox] Old Believers, who had a very strict attitude towards the family. But both my husband and the Center explained to me that if we didn’t do it, then who would? I went through WWII as a child. And I understood how important our job was. So, I made up my mind to do it.

- What was the specifically female part of your work?

- I went through the same training as my husband. And we were interchangeable. When we were, as they say, in the field and he went somewhere on a business trip, then I could completely substitute for him, I did the same work, and I kept in touch with the Center. Of course, it was much easier to do it together from the point of view of security. For example, when we met with other people at receptions and dinners, he would quietly watch me and I would watch him to see how others behaved around us because if I missed something, he could see it, or vice versa. Let’s say some person came up to one of us more than once and kept doing it again and again. That meant that he was looking for a meeting, that he was expressing some special interest. My husband and I developed a special language in which we communicated such information to each other, which we used to warn each other.

[But] there were things that only I could do. We needed to be a part of the community which included those who had the necessary information. And the wives of such people would meet in the women’s clubs - for example, the clubs that taught the ikebana skills.

So, I became a member of this club. The instructors came directly from Japan. And after class, we would go to lunch. Women showed off their outfits there and talked about their vacations. They would then start to brag about whose husband was doing better. Naturally, I made friends with these women, because my acquaintance with them would lead to the acquaintance with their husbands. This was very convenient in those cases when my husband could not directly approach the person of interest.

- Have you forgotten those [ikebana] skills? Could you create a flower arrangement now?

- Sometimes I try at home, but I need to have a special kind of material. In general, ikebana is an interesting skill. And useful: it can also act as a kind of cover - you learn how to do it, look around a bit, and [then] open your own little club where you can invite people you are interested in.

- How long did it take you and your husband to feel that you have finally become the people you had to be to complete your assignment successfully?

- Strictly speaking, probably two years. For some reason, I always had difficulties when switching not from Russian to a foreign language, but, on the contrary, from a foreign language to Russian. Probably because, God forgive me, I made it my enemy for so long. This was necessary from the point of view of self-preservation.

- As they say, my tongue is my enemy…

- Because even if you don’t speak Russian, but only think in it, it can still break through somewhere before you [consciously] notice it.

- So, you had to think in the language of the host country?

- Yes, of course! I even still have dreams in which I speak it.

- And when you wake up, how do you feel?

- I feel pleasure that I was speaking it. And I want to speak it again. And I quickly find the words I need.

- While you worked abroad, did you hear Russian spoken near you?

- Soviet athletes and artists came [to the country we were based in]. For example, I wanted to cheer for our athletes, but [obviously] that was impossible. Once on the street we passed some elderly women who spoke Russian, they were probably [first generation] immigrants. And one of them said: “I would like to visit Russia so much, at least for a second to see what is going on there…”

In the beginning, our biggest difficulty came from the Soviet upbringing. Everything was different. For instance, how do our women put on a dress? Over the head. And there - only from below. And you needed to know all these little things. I even did one very stupid thing in the beginning... When we settled down in one place abroad, we went to the store. And there I immediately got a lot of toilet paper rolls. We remembered how bad it was at home with that.

- But there, it turns out, there was never any shortage?

- Of course not! But I mechanically got it for storage. Then my husband came up to me and said quietly: “Hey, what are you doing?!” I had to put everything back on the shelf before anyone noticed. My husband wasn’t pleased; he said - be more careful next time. That is why it was so important to keep an eye on each other, to warn the other if he is doing something wrong.

- Did your husband unwittingly make any mistakes?

- We were trained to save money. And one day, preparing for a business trip for the company in which he worked, my husband bought a plane ticket in the economy class. His boss then called him to his office and said: “Why are you doing this? There will be rumors that our company is going bankrupt! Don’t do that again.”

All the old habits, the things that we learned at home, had to be forgotten.

- But homesickness stays with you... In the legendary TV series Seventeen Moments of Spring, there is an episode where Stierlitz [the main protagonist, Soviet illegal intelligence officer] once allows himself to relax - in his apartment on February 23 [Defender of the Fatherland Day], he bakes potatoes in the fireplace.

- Of course, you miss your homeland. Even if you don't have children, you may have parents who are still living. Indeed, sometimes I’d feel such melancholy, I really wanted to go home... I wanted that piece of black bread with herring. And my husband would say, let’s find it here. There was herring, but it wasn’t like the one at home. And the black bread was in jars. It was also very different. [But] we celebrated all our holidays.

- I am curious, what did you prepare for March 8?

- I made dumplings [pelmeni]. I would make just a few, boiled them, and we quickly ate them. If I wanted borsch, I also made it.

- But what about the food aromas that came from the kitchen? What if someone smelled uncommon food dishes? Wouldn’t this be a factor in your exposure?

- We were saved by the fact that we lived above a Chinese restaurant, which was on the first floor of our building. The smell of garlic coming from there permeated everything. So [food smells] could not give us away. And we had our chats quietly, in the evening. Once my husband was on a business trip and I received a radiogram from Moscow that he was awarded another medal. I told him about this on the phone in our special language, put a new tablecloth on the edge of the table, filled two glasses – one for him and the other for myself, clinked glasses with “him” for his medal, drank, put everything away, and went to bed. And when he returned, we had a celebration together.

- Were you sometimes allowed to come to the Soviet Union?

- Yes. The Center allowed us to do so, but rarely. At first, we had no children [according to the cover story], and this was the reason I would give for leaving the country where we worked, allegedly to seek treatment.

- Did you see the older son at home [in Moscow]?

- Yes, of course. But it was impossible to take his photograph back with me, so I had to tell my husband all the details probably a hundred times. He wanted to know, for example, how Yura’s hairstyle looked like.

The Center told us how Yura was doing. Once they told us that he began the lessons of ballroom dancing. And Yura lived with his grandmothers and aunts, and they, of course, did everything to make him eat a lot. So, he was plump. And now he was learning ballroom dancing, can you imagine? And so, probably for about six months, my husband and I went out somewhere to a secluded place and discussed and imagined how that would look like. These reports were like oxygen to us, they gave us life.

Then we had a second child abroad. We wanted a girl. And when I went into labor, the husbands of other women giving birth at the same hospital told my husband: “What, you really want a girl?!” All fathers want a boy. The husband laughed it off in the sense that one first needs to have a nanny [a girl] and then a doll [a boy, so that the girl takes care of him]. [A Russian saying]

For some reason, many girls were born that day, but we had a boy - Andrey, or Andre. How he screamed in a real Siberian bass!

- Here again I recall Seventeen Moments of Spring, where the radio operator Kat, giving birth, shouted in Russian and thus betrayed her real identity. Did you fear such a risk?

- No, because I already made Russian language into an enemy. And my husband was next to me in the hospital. But at some point he became ill and the doctor said: “Take him away, I don't know which one of the two to help first!” When we had Andrey, we were no longer so homesick as before because we had someone dear next to us. And in general, when you are a family, counterintelligence pays less attention to you. And if you have children, then the family is complete. And there is more trust.

The child can even help you do the intelligence assignment in certain situations. Let’s say you need to leave a prearranged signal. It’s very simple - you go out with a stroller. Who will pay attention to a woman with a stroller, to what she will do? And you can hold the stroller with one hand and leave the signal with the other. Or you can drop a toy and you stop exactly where you need to. But, at a certain point, we had to send Andrey home, too. You know, when we had to leave our second son behind in the Soviet Union, for the first and the last time, I had a dream that my husband and I were arrested. Although we never thought of that and never reflected on it so as not to bring on bad luck. But, at that time, I had such a dream. I told my husband and he said: “Don't worry, since Andrey is no longer with us, they won’t get anything from me.” Because what can they use to put pressure on you? Your child.

- Have you ever experienced a feeling of fear?

- There was no such feeling. There was a sense of danger, but it was a feeling that mobilized for action. At such moments, you are like a taut muscle. I even became more brazen in a good way. Everything is boiling inside, but outwardly you show nothing. This, by the way, is one of the main challenges of our work: no matter what happens to you, you must always smile - everything is fine, everything is OK!

There was a situation once in a cafe, which may have been operated by local counterintelligence. My husband and I were sitting at the bar, and suddenly some stranger came up to him and said: “You are Russian!” Maybe he wanted to see my husband’s reaction. And here it was necessary to behave like an actor. My husband very calmly replied: “And I say that you are Russian!” Well, that guy had nothing to hide [he was Russian]. Then everyone started laughing and [someone] said: “We are all Russians here!” No damage was done.

Although we never thought about it, my husband once drove past a building and said: “Here, make your acquaintance, this is a local prison.” But I replied that I didn’t like those “apartments” at all.

- Why did you and your husband have to return home after so many years?

- A person betrayed us. His last name is Gordievsky. He once served as an acting station chief in London. So much effort was invested in us [by the Center], it took a long time to get settled abroad and acquire all the necessary connections. And everything was destroyed because of this man. If he had come across my path, I would have scratched his eyes out! I do not envy traitors. They don’t like people like that over there [in the West], because if you betray once, you can betray again. That’s what they are afraid of.

I was on vacation in Kazakhstan, in the village where our house was located. And suddenly a message came from the Center. I ran to the village council building with the thought that my husband was arrested. But I was immediately reassured - he was with us, he was successfully evacuated. How relieved I was... Then it became clear that it was all over for us.

- By the end of your assignment, did you have a feeling that the things were getting hot?

- Yes, we did. For instance, there was this unpleasant episode. A couple moved in next to us. And I think they started to monitor us on the sly. Once they invited us for dinner. We arrived at the appointed time, and they said, excuse us, we need to step out for a minute, allegedly to change clothes. We began to look at the paintings that they had on the walls. And then suddenly I noticed a book on the coffee table: Leo Tolstoy, Anna Karenina. In Russian.

How to react to that? I went up to my husband and said quietly: “Have you seen it?” He replied, also quietly: “Focus on the paintings.” We made no reaction whatsoever.

- And, all the while, they were observing you?

- Yes. But in order to arrest us, they had to have a cause. But we didn’t give it to them.

- After you returned to the Soviet Union, you must have been perceived as foreigners.

- Yes, especially because Andrey didn’t know Russian at all, and I had to communicate with him in another language. We even used it to our advantage a little because they would let us get ahead in the queues for groceries.

- Did your family know about your profession?

- At first, they thought that we were working at the Foreign Ministry and did not take our first child with us because of the climate. But then they began to guess the truth, especially after Seventeen Moments of Spring came out [in 1973].

- You have been abroad for a long time and you have met many people. Who are the most beautiful women in the world?

- Russian women. Though each country has its share of beauties.

- I’ll hardly be mistaken if I say that many men found you attractive. Did it affect your work in the field in any way?

- For this reason, I did not like to go anywhere by myself. Once an Italian wanted to detain me [on the airport] when I was supposed to fly alone. As a result, my luggage left without me… I made such a scandal and they put me on the next flight. And once in the hotel elevator, I rode with several of our soccer players who came to play the match. They began to discuss me, thinking that I did not understand anything. How they wanted to punch them in the face! Although I did not consider myself a beauty. But when I was with my husband, I felt protected in the literal sense. With my husband, I felt like being behind a stone wall.

- Without getting into any details, how significant is the information you have obtained?

- We helped our country a lot.

- What medals were you awarded?

- I have the Order of the Red Star and the medal “For Bravery.”

- Lyudmila Ivanovna, what would you wish women on the eve of March 8?

- I want to congratulate them all and appeal to young women - do not be afraid to pursue jobs in intelligence. You will help our men in very difficult, responsible, but manageable work, because men will feel bad without you - just like you will, without them.