RIA Novosti: Interview of Lyudmila Nuykina, Veteran KGB Illegal Intelligence Officer

On March 7, 2018, the Russian state-owned news agency RIA Novosti published an interview of Lyudmila Nuykina, a former KGB illegal intelligence officer who, together with her husband Vitaly, worked in more than a dozen countries until their return to the USSR in 1986. Her name was officially declassified by the SVR in 2017. Below is my English translation available only on this blog. 

 

Former Illegal Intelligence Officer Lyudmila Nuykina: We Secretly Celebrated March 8 with Pelmeni

 

RIA Novosti March 7, 2018

The name of Russian [Soviet] illegal intelligence officer Lyudmila Nuykina was recently declassified. But what she and her husband, also an illegal intelligence officer, did while working abroad remains classified. However, a number of things can be disclosed. For example, in what way is the wife able to help her husband in this kind of work and even do things he can’t; how women abroad put their dresses on, and whether the attention of other men can affect the work of a female intelligence officer? On the eve of International Women’s Day, this is what the veteran of the Russian Foreign Intelligence Service (SVR) Lyudmila Nuykina told RIA Novosti in an interview.

- Lyudmila Ivanovna, it is believed that intelligence, especially illegal intelligence, is man’s business. But what does it mean to be a female illegal intelligence officer, which character traits are needed?

- It is not only man’s business. Yes, it’s very hard. You have to live the life of another person. And not only to pretend. Illegal intelligence is not a theater stage: you go out for a couple of hours, play a role, and return home. And it isn’t just any job - we served the Fatherland, and therefore, first of all, we had to be patriots and love our Homeland. But a woman working in illegal intelligence needs a special kind of courage if she has children. When my husband and I went abroad, we had to leave our little son Yura behind. It was a very difficult decision for me, especially since I was brought up among the [Russian Orthodox] Old Believers, who had a very strict attitude towards the family. But both my husband and the Center explained to me that if we didn’t do it, then who would? I went through WWII as a child. And I understood how important our job was. So, I made up my mind to do it.

- What was the specifically female part of your work?

- I went through the same training as my husband. And we were interchangeable. When we were, as they say, in the field and he went somewhere on a business trip, then I could completely substitute for him, I did the same work, and I kept in touch with the Center. Of course, it was much easier to do it together from the point of view of security. For example, when we met with other people at receptions and dinners, he would quietly watch me and I would watch him to see how others behaved around us because if I missed something, he could see it, or vice versa. Let’s say some person came up to one of us more than once and kept doing it again and again. That meant that he was looking for a meeting, that he was expressing some special interest. My husband and I developed a special language in which we communicated such information to each other, which we used to warn each other.

[But] there were things that only I could do. We needed to be a part of the community which included those who had the necessary information. And the wives of such people would meet in the women’s clubs - for example, the clubs that taught the ikebana skills.

So, I became a member of this club. The instructors came directly from Japan. And after class, we would go to lunch. Women showed off their outfits there and talked about their vacations. They would then start to brag about whose husband was doing better. Naturally, I made friends with these women, because my acquaintance with them would lead to the acquaintance with their husbands. This was very convenient in those cases when my husband could not directly approach the person of interest.

- Have you forgotten those [ikebana] skills? Could you create a flower arrangement now?

- Sometimes I try at home, but I need to have a special kind of material. In general, ikebana is an interesting skill. And useful: it can also act as a kind of cover - you learn how to do it, look around a bit, and [then] open your own little club where you can invite people you are interested in.

- How long did it take you and your husband to feel that you have finally become the people you had to be to complete your assignment successfully?

- Strictly speaking, probably two years. For some reason, I always had difficulties when switching not from Russian to a foreign language, but, on the contrary, from a foreign language to Russian. Probably because, God forgive me, I made it my enemy for so long. This was necessary from the point of view of self-preservation.

- As they say, my tongue is my enemy…

- Because even if you don’t speak Russian, but only think in it, it can still break through somewhere before you [consciously] notice it.

- So, you had to think in the language of the host country?

- Yes, of course! I even still have dreams in which I speak it.

- And when you wake up, how do you feel?

- I feel pleasure that I was speaking it. And I want to speak it again. And I quickly find the words I need.

- While you worked abroad, did you hear Russian spoken near you?

- Soviet athletes and artists came [to the country we were based in]. For example, I wanted to cheer for our athletes, but [obviously] that was impossible. Once on the street we passed some elderly women who spoke Russian, they were probably [first generation] immigrants. And one of them said: “I would like to visit Russia so much, at least for a second to see what is going on there…”

In the beginning, our biggest difficulty came from the Soviet upbringing. Everything was different. For instance, how do our women put on a dress? Over the head. And there - only from below. And you needed to know all these little things. I even did one very stupid thing in the beginning... When we settled down in one place abroad, we went to the store. And there I immediately got a lot of toilet paper rolls. We remembered how bad it was at home with that.

- But there, it turns out, there was never any shortage?

- Of course not! But I mechanically got it for storage. Then my husband came up to me and said quietly: “Hey, what are you doing?!” I had to put everything back on the shelf before anyone noticed. My husband wasn’t pleased; he said - be more careful next time. That is why it was so important to keep an eye on each other, to warn the other if he is doing something wrong.

- Did your husband unwittingly make any mistakes?

- We were trained to save money. And one day, preparing for a business trip for the company in which he worked, my husband bought a plane ticket in the economy class. His boss then called him to his office and said: “Why are you doing this? There will be rumors that our company is going bankrupt! Don’t do that again.”

All the old habits, the things that we learned at home, had to be forgotten.

- But homesickness stays with you... In the legendary TV series Seventeen Moments of Spring, there is an episode where Stierlitz [the main protagonist, Soviet illegal intelligence officer] once allows himself to relax - in his apartment on February 23 [Defender of the Fatherland Day], he bakes potatoes in the fireplace.

- Of course, you miss your homeland. Even if you don't have children, you may have parents who are still living. Indeed, sometimes I’d feel such melancholy, I really wanted to go home... I wanted that piece of black bread with herring. And my husband would say, let’s find it here. There was herring, but it wasn’t like the one at home. And the black bread was in jars. It was also very different. [But] we celebrated all our holidays.

- I am curious, what did you prepare for March 8?

- I made dumplings [pelmeni]. I would make just a few, boiled them, and we quickly ate them. If I wanted borsch, I also made it.

- But what about the food aromas that came from the kitchen? What if someone smelled uncommon food dishes? Wouldn’t this be a factor in your exposure?

- We were saved by the fact that we lived above a Chinese restaurant, which was on the first floor of our building. The smell of garlic coming from there permeated everything. So [food smells] could not give us away. And we had our chats quietly, in the evening. Once my husband was on a business trip and I received a radiogram from Moscow that he was awarded another medal. I told him about this on the phone in our special language, put a new tablecloth on the edge of the table, filled two glasses – one for him and the other for myself, clinked glasses with “him” for his medal, drank, put everything away, and went to bed. And when he returned, we had a celebration together.

- Were you sometimes allowed to come to the Soviet Union?

- Yes. The Center allowed us to do so, but rarely. At first, we had no children [according to the cover story], and this was the reason I would give for leaving the country where we worked, allegedly to seek treatment.

- Did you see the older son at home [in Moscow]?

- Yes, of course. But it was impossible to take his photograph back with me, so I had to tell my husband all the details probably a hundred times. He wanted to know, for example, how Yura’s hairstyle looked like.

The Center told us how Yura was doing. Once they told us that he began the lessons of ballroom dancing. And Yura lived with his grandmothers and aunts, and they, of course, did everything to make him eat a lot. So, he was plump. And now he was learning ballroom dancing, can you imagine? And so, probably for about six months, my husband and I went out somewhere to a secluded place and discussed and imagined how that would look like. These reports were like oxygen to us, they gave us life.

Then we had a second child abroad. We wanted a girl. And when I went into labor, the husbands of other women giving birth at the same hospital told my husband: “What, you really want a girl?!” All fathers want a boy. The husband laughed it off in the sense that one first needs to have a nanny [a girl] and then a doll [a boy, so that the girl takes care of him]. [A Russian saying]

For some reason, many girls were born that day, but we had a boy - Andrey, or Andre. How he screamed in a real Siberian bass!

- Here again I recall Seventeen Moments of Spring, where the radio operator Kat, giving birth, shouted in Russian and thus betrayed her real identity. Did you fear such a risk?

- No, because I already made Russian language into an enemy. And my husband was next to me in the hospital. But at some point he became ill and the doctor said: “Take him away, I don't know which one of the two to help first!” When we had Andrey, we were no longer so homesick as before because we had someone dear next to us. And in general, when you are a family, counterintelligence pays less attention to you. And if you have children, then the family is complete. And there is more trust.

The child can even help you do the intelligence assignment in certain situations. Let’s say you need to leave a prearranged signal. It’s very simple - you go out with a stroller. Who will pay attention to a woman with a stroller, to what she will do? And you can hold the stroller with one hand and leave the signal with the other. Or you can drop a toy and you stop exactly where you need to. But, at a certain point, we had to send Andrey home, too. You know, when we had to leave our second son behind in the Soviet Union, for the first and the last time, I had a dream that my husband and I were arrested. Although we never thought of that and never reflected on it so as not to bring on bad luck. But, at that time, I had such a dream. I told my husband and he said: “Don't worry, since Andrey is no longer with us, they won’t get anything from me.” Because what can they use to put pressure on you? Your child.

- Have you ever experienced a feeling of fear?

- There was no such feeling. There was a sense of danger, but it was a feeling that mobilized for action. At such moments, you are like a taut muscle. I even became more brazen in a good way. Everything is boiling inside, but outwardly you show nothing. This, by the way, is one of the main challenges of our work: no matter what happens to you, you must always smile - everything is fine, everything is OK!

There was a situation once in a cafe, which may have been operated by local counterintelligence. My husband and I were sitting at the bar, and suddenly some stranger came up to him and said: “You are Russian!” Maybe he wanted to see my husband’s reaction. And here it was necessary to behave like an actor. My husband very calmly replied: “And I say that you are Russian!” Well, that guy had nothing to hide [he was Russian]. Then everyone started laughing and [someone] said: “We are all Russians here!” No damage was done.

Although we never thought about it, my husband once drove past a building and said: “Here, make your acquaintance, this is a local prison.” But I replied that I didn’t like those “apartments” at all.

- Why did you and your husband have to return home after so many years?

- A person betrayed us. His last name is Gordievsky. He once served as an acting station chief in London. So much effort was invested in us [by the Center], it took a long time to get settled abroad and acquire all the necessary connections. And everything was destroyed because of this man. If he had come across my path, I would have scratched his eyes out! I do not envy traitors. They don’t like people like that over there [in the West], because if you betray once, you can betray again. That’s what they are afraid of.

I was on vacation in Kazakhstan, in the village where our house was located. And suddenly a message came from the Center. I ran to the village council building with the thought that my husband was arrested. But I was immediately reassured - he was with us, he was successfully evacuated. How relieved I was... Then it became clear that it was all over for us.

- By the end of your assignment, did you have a feeling that the things were getting hot?

- Yes, we did. For instance, there was this unpleasant episode. A couple moved in next to us. And I think they started to monitor us on the sly. Once they invited us for dinner. We arrived at the appointed time, and they said, excuse us, we need to step out for a minute, allegedly to change clothes. We began to look at the paintings that they had on the walls. And then suddenly I noticed a book on the coffee table: Leo Tolstoy, Anna Karenina. In Russian.

How to react to that? I went up to my husband and said quietly: “Have you seen it?” He replied, also quietly: “Focus on the paintings.” We made no reaction whatsoever.

- And, all the while, they were observing you?

- Yes. But in order to arrest us, they had to have a cause. But we didn’t give it to them.

- After you returned to the Soviet Union, you must have been perceived as foreigners.

- Yes, especially because Andrey didn’t know Russian at all, and I had to communicate with him in another language. We even used it to our advantage a little because they would let us get ahead in the queues for groceries.

- Did your family know about your profession?

- At first, they thought that we were working at the Foreign Ministry and did not take our first child with us because of the climate. But then they began to guess the truth, especially after Seventeen Moments of Spring came out [in 1973].

- You have been abroad for a long time and you have met many people. Who are the most beautiful women in the world?

- Russian women. Though each country has its share of beauties.

- I’ll hardly be mistaken if I say that many men found you attractive. Did it affect your work in the field in any way?

- For this reason, I did not like to go anywhere by myself. Once an Italian wanted to detain me [on the airport] when I was supposed to fly alone. As a result, my luggage left without me… I made such a scandal and they put me on the next flight. And once in the hotel elevator, I rode with several of our soccer players who came to play the match. They began to discuss me, thinking that I did not understand anything. How they wanted to punch them in the face! Although I did not consider myself a beauty. But when I was with my husband, I felt protected in the literal sense. With my husband, I felt like being behind a stone wall.

- Without getting into any details, how significant is the information you have obtained?

- We helped our country a lot.

- What medals were you awarded?

- I have the Order of the Red Star and the medal “For Bravery.”

- Lyudmila Ivanovna, what would you wish women on the eve of March 8?

- I want to congratulate them all and appeal to young women - do not be afraid to pursue jobs in intelligence. You will help our men in very difficult, responsible, but manageable work, because men will feel bad without you - just like you will, without them.

Russian Humanitarian Prize Website: Interview of Elena Vavilova, Veteran KGB/SVR Illegal Intelligence Officer

Elena Vavilova (aka Tracey Lee Ann Foley) was a KGB/SVR illegal intelligence officer based in Canada, France, and the United States. Together with her husband Andrey Bezrukov (aka Donald Heathfield) and eight other Russian intelligence officers, she was arrested in the FBI Operation Ghost Stories in June 2010 and later exchanged in a prisoner swap between the U.S. and Russia.

The Russian humanitarian prize “Na Blago Mira” [For the Good of the World] website published this exclusive, lengthy interview of Elena Vavilova on May 26, 2020. Below is my English translation available only on this blog.

Zoya Bardina: For the Good of the Homeland. On the Centenary of Russia’s Foreign Intelligence Service (SVR): Interview with Elena Vavilova

Na Blago Mira May 26, 2020

A new book by the retired foreign intelligence officer, Colonel of the Foreign Intelligence Service (SVR) Elena Vavilova The Encrypted Heart was released recently, and the book presentation was held in the TASS Press Center. This is an intriguing novel from the book series “Female Intelligence Officer. My Undercover Life.” The “Na Blago Mira” Prize website publishes this exclusive interview with Vavilova, conducted by a friend of the Prize, journalist Zoya Bardina.

In this conversation, Elena Stanislavovna [Vavilova] talked about the significant events and experiences in her life and her forgiveness of betrayal.

- Elena Stanislavovna, what did you dream about as a child? Do you still have the same dreams?

- In childhood, everyone dreams of having an interesting occupation. I wanted to be an actress, or a ballerina, art attracted me. I went to a music school, studied ballet, and saw myself on stage. I tried to enroll at the Theater Institute in Leningrad and major in art criticism but was not successful. I returned to my native Tomsk and enrolled as a history major. Of course, that’s the humanities, but still not too far removed from art.

As a student at the university, like so many young people, I reflected on the meaning of life, on my life mission, which I think is important for every person. Most likely, it was a search for [a deeper] meaning in life - why we live and what we can do to bring good things into the world. For me, this was connected to improving life in our country and a desire to prevent military conflicts. When I ended up in foreign intelligence by chance, it seemed to me that this was exactly the profession where I could realize my desire - to contribute to peace in the world.

It was no longer a dream, but a reality. And I was a [practical] realist and understood that in life you needed to work hard in order to achieve something.

I dreamed of being successful, and I still do. Successful in terms of constantly developing myself and of accomplishing something concrete. If that something is to study, it means to study well, to be enthusiastic. To have an active position in life, to make efforts to be [even] better, to constantly develop yourself and never stop.

When I was at university, I worked in a student newspaper. I had a genuine curiosity for life and all its manifestations. I wanted to write articles about what is going on around us. Yes, I wanted to be socially active and take the initiative instead of waiting for someone to come and present everything on a silver platter. Efficiency and constant development - this was the main thing in my life.

- What talents and abilities did you want to develop?

- First of all, I wanted to have a distinguished place in society, to have a distinguished profession. When I studied, I dreamed of doing scientific work. I wanted to learn as much as possible and contribute to the scientific community. At that time, I thought in terms of being a historian. Then my life went in a different direction. But the desire to use my potential, given to me from birth by God, parents, genetics, was always there. I wanted to use it to do good for myself, my family and the society as a whole.

- What values did your parents instill in you?

- My parents, my mom and dad, worked as scientists and professors. They were highly educated. In addition to their professional careers, they knew a lot about art and music, especially my dad who played several instruments. They tried to instill in me the curiosity and interest in my surroundings. We traveled a lot around the country, in the [other former] republics of the Soviet Union. My parents wanted to show me different cities, the lifestyles of different people, so that I understand and appreciate the diversity of our country. They also instilled in me universal human values - kindness, helping other people. I learned a lot from their example, how they treated others, their parents, who were already elderly. Our family was very tightly knit. This was a great example for me of a positive outlook on life and the value of mutual support within a family. My mom Svetlana Konstantinovna and my dad Stanislav Platonovich have lived together for 57 years. The strength of my parents’ marriage was also a great example.

- And your parents were not offended by the fact that you would not tell them too much about 25 years of your life, about your secret work?

- No, they were not. They knew that we were telling them as much as we could. They didn’t know anything else. But this was a necessity. First, to protect them from unnecessary worries, concerns and thoughts about what was happening to us, about where we were. It was a kind of protection for their emotional health. Over time, they got used to the fact that there was a certain secret veil, a secret life, and even if they didn’t understand everything, they tried not to ask too much. At an earlier time, my dad worked as a physicist in a closed institute where he was not allowed to talk about the research being conducted. My parents believed that our work was associated with certain sociological studies that were to be kept secret. Therefore, they didn’t ask too many questions. From time to time, we would come to Russia on vacation and meet with them. They saw that we were joyful, healthy, lived well, had children. This reassured them.

- Did your own beliefs and life principle change over time?

- As in the case of any other person, my character developed over time. Some personality traits became more pronounced, I noticed some shortcomings and worked to eliminate them. I think that it is useful for each person to try to balance his personality.

For example, let’s take one of my character traits that people notice. They tell me that I am too generous and that I care too much about other people, forgetting about myself. For me, this is the norm, this is my life-long attitude, and it has been so since my youth. I have always wanted to help as much as I could. This character trait was also manifested when I worked abroad. Everyone considered me attentive, always ready to come to anybody’s rescue. I believe that a person should give as much as possible to those close to him. I was never an egoist. It was the same with the upbringing of children. I was always ready to do anything for them, often to the detriment of myself. Maybe it was necessary to have more balance and reduce my zeal? But I just couldn’t do it. My husband Andrey is a bit different, he is more rational in this sense.

I believe that everyone should do his part for the betterment of society. This for me is the most important thing, the foundation on which I built my life.

- Why did you give your book the title A Woman Who Can Keep Secrets? Can a woman really keep secrets?

- I wanted the title to attract the reader, and not only women, but also men. Of course, women can keep secrets, if necessary, despite the fact that they are more emotional, and the perceptions of the outside world affect them more strongly. On the other hand, it’s more difficult for us to restrain our feelings. For example, I can cry easily, I worry more. But I also consciously agreed to do a difficult job. And keeping secrets was the key thing for my security, for my success. Because if I were a loudmouth and shared my secrets with everyone, I wouldn’t last in my job. I think this may be more of a male character trait, but I have it. Interestingly, when I was a child, I loved playing boys’ games.

Of course, when I lived abroad, I behaved like an ordinary woman: I liked to chat with other women over a cup of coffee. We talked about everyday topics, most of all about parenting. I was more open to such conversations than my husband, who, from the outside, seemed introverted and a man of few words.

I usually get along with people more easily because I am more emotional and attentive to another person’s moods. But, when necessary, I can keep any secrets.

- By the way, intelligence profession is not the only one where women work and keep secrets.

- True, there are women who worked in the military, women who are scientists whose work is classified. A person usually chooses a profession based on his character traits and abilities.

- You and your husband lived under false names for many years. What are your feelings about that?

- For the sake of dynamism in the plot of my book, I had us change our names twice. But, in real life, we used the same names from the beginning. The work of illegal intelligence officers requires [using false names]; it is one of the methods of our work.

- When emotions reach their peak, it is difficult to restrain oneself and not say something in one’s own language. How did you and your husband deal with this?

- This wasn’t difficult. We consciously, and by the exertion of willpower, avoided speaking our native language. We understood that in order to do our work successfully and safely, we had to learn to abstract ourselves from our previous lives and to believe that we were now people with different names. Over time, when we called each other using these names, we ourselves internally felt like different people. But interestingly, in the family circle, we still avoided these names when we called each other and replaced them with neutral expressions, such as “dear.” Even our children, when they were little, thought “Hmm.  What’s my mom’s or my dad’s name?” They did not hear them at home too often.

- Your marriage with Andrey and your children – is that something fated from above? Do you have a strong marriage?

- Yes, of course. First, it is based on mutual feelings, love, respect, trust in each other. Moreover, our work in common brought us together even more and helped us avoid serious disagreements. We tried not to exaggerate household troubles and disputes that would inevitably happen. We are normal people and nothing human is alien to us. Of course, we first got to know each other while we were here, then we left, and our work and life abroad bound us together even more. After all, we could not share anything about our work with anybody else. It was just two of us. Quarreling over minor issues would be foolish; we would lose even the mutual support. We understood that we were dependent on each other and this helped us. I think that our marriage is sanctified from above, especially since we had to marry twice in connection with our [intelligence] assignment. First, we got married as students in the Tomsk Registry Office, and then in the city hall of the city where we lived abroad under different names.

- Do you and Andrey complement each other and feel as one?

- Yes, we do. We have been together for 37 years.

- [When you were abroad] you sang psalms, Christian hymns, communicated with a priest. Did this have an impact on you?

- Yes, of course. When you immerse yourself in the church atmosphere, then it inevitably gets into you. I sang in Latin and French, I deeply felt and understood the meaning of those words. For me it was an epiphany, an interesting inner emotional state. It led me to thinking that there is some grand principle that guides our life on earth. I very much enjoyed my participation in the church choir.

- Were you allowed to express your religious affiliation?

- Initially, we were trained as Catholics. According to the identity documents that I used, my family was Catholic, as evidenced by the entry in the church registry. It was assumed that I was baptized. We went to church, we talked with the priest and other believers, we participated in Christian holidays and the holiday prayer. We knew all the rites very well. Of course, when you participate in prayers, you come into contact with spirituality, and God's peace comes into you. I think that was a positive thing for us - the opportunity to go to church there. It helped us to be calm and relaxed and provided us with balance.

- What was the main thing for you as parents in your children’s upbringing?

- I believe that parents should raise children by being their role models. I thought it was important what they saw that we were doing. Using our behavior as a model, we tried to instill in them discipline and responsibility for what they do. For example, to keep their promises, to do everything on time. To be generous, to help those who have had fewer opportunities, who may be lacking in some way. To be open to accept people of different nationalities and religions. That was important. I think we were successful. Our sons are quite tolerant and responsible young people. The oldest Timofey is already 29, the youngest Alexander is 25. We wanted to give them such names so that they sounded good both in Russian and English. Timothy – Tim and Alexander - Alex sound the same in many languages. They majored in finance and are employed in the financial sector. The older son is married.

- You and your spouse received a very good education abroad.

- Yes, especially Andrey. After the children were born, I became a stay-at-home mom. Without top education, especially in the case of Andrey, it was difficult for us to carry out our [intelligence] assignments. We needed to assimilate and take up the positions of higher social status. In order to accomplish this, Andrey graduated from several universities. He graduated from his first [Western] university in Canada, then in France, and then in the United States, where we lived for ten years. We actually came to the U.S. just so he could receive another diploma, which was quite prestigious [Harvard Kennedy School]. After graduation, he worked as a consultant on business development strategies. He was interested in the projects of planning the future.

- What differences did you notice between Russia and the U.S.?

- In our country, there are a lot of gifted people. Our nation is talented. Our history is quite long and complicated compared to the U.S. Their state is young and was formed by the emigrants who arrived with their own culture and their own traditions. In order to unite them, one fundamental idea was needed and that was democracy. American political institutions were created in order to unite the people of different cultures into one community with its own rules. Russia is different. During the long history of the existence of our state, we had to go through serious trials and tribulations. We went through quite a lot. As a nation, we are more profound.

- What helped you and Andrey when you were on the verge of being exposed [or] had to make some tough decisions?

- First, we believed in what we were doing and in the benefits that our work was providing for our country. We used the personal qualities that we had; mostly, our willpower. I believe that our profession is a bit similar to being a monk when people renounce the things widely available to any ordinary person. Monks deny themselves many things to focus on what is important to them – the faith in God. We did the same. We believed that what we were doing was important for our country. This is what we lived for. All other things fade away when you are doing a good deed. Of course, we could not communicate with our parents, we could not write them letters. There were no native Russian people around us or former friends. These were the limitations that we had to overcome. But we understood that we were doing an important service. Remember, even the word patriotism itself came from the Latin “patrio,” which means Fatherland, Homeland. And our profession is grounded in patriotism. This is the main thing. If a person is not a patriot, then he will not be able to work as an intelligence officer. And love for the Motherland, for the Fatherland, for the people, the desire to help those who are close - these are our spiritual values. It turns out that, in fact, our service is grounded in the spiritual commitment. In our case, serving our Fatherland in the broadest sense is serving the people who inhabit our country. For each of us, the Homeland begins with a family in which a small child learns the first words and gradually realizes that his family is his help and protection.

We served the Homeland so that our nation would be strong and that the families of our multinational country would live peacefully without incidents, wars, and conflicts. Peace must be protected. We considered ourselves the fighters of the invisible front. I resolved the question about the meaning and purpose of life; I found the answer I was looking for. For me, this answer was expressed in the service to my country.

- What are the most important qualities of a patriot? And what if the nation is deified?

- If this is the U.S. or German-style patriotism, then yes, the deification of the nation is evident. [They claim] we are the best in the world. This of course is an exaggeration. In my understanding, patriotism is love and devotion to one’s country. Patriots are people who love their homeland. And the homeland must be identified with the place of birth, with the people who inhabit your country. Patriotism, fanaticism, and nationalism are not the same thing. Fanaticism and nationalism destroy. True patriotism lies in one’s fidelity to the Fatherland and the desire to make it better, to work towards that.

- Using the experiences you gained in your work, can you see through a person?

- Very often. First, it comes with practice. If you work with people, you develop an understanding of human psychology. I can determine the character of a person by his manners and by what he says. I can find out people’s beliefs after a short communication. Getting to know what makes people tick is very interesting. When I was abroad, I constantly studied and deepened the knowledge that I began to acquire in my youth in the fields of philosophy and psychology. All this helped me understand the people, mainly foreigners, who were around us. Their way of thinking was different from ours. Even now, I involuntarily make an internal assessment of the person who I am talking to. It’s like a teacher who immediately sees what his new class will be like, who will be an exemplary student and who will cause trouble. Such knowledge comes with experience.

- Does it help in everyday life?

- Yes, of course. I also use female intuition. Sometimes I can’t explain why there is something in a person I like while, at the same time, there is something I dislike. I rely on intuition. This helps me to find the right approach. In my work abroad, it was necessary to be attentive to how the other person responded to certain words and actions. Intuition is very useful in everyday life, in your job, with your colleagues.

- What are you doing now?

- At this time, I work in a private company. I am engaged in analytical work and research competitive business intelligence. So, my analytic experience came in handy. I try to be of service.

- You now have your own team of work associates.

- Yes, and I am glad. When we arrived in Russia after many years of absence, we had no acquaintances and friends. We had to start all over again. This is where our qualities and experience came in handy again, now in our own country. Gradually, we found a group of people with whom it’s great to keep in touch.

I was lucky with my current colleagues. They are supportive and communicative, which is very important. Over time, I integrated myself successfully in a company not related to my former professional activities and found new friends. Now, my husband and I feel like ordinary people. Maybe our friendships are all quite new, but there is already a lot of depth. We are happy that we met a lot of interesting people in Russia from different walks of life, different ages, and different belief systems.

- Who do you become friends with?

- People with whom we share similar interests and beliefs, people with whom it’s a pleasure to communicate, people with whom we have something to talk about. These are the people in front of whom you don’t have to pretend, but you can be sincere. They accept you as you are. This is important so that there is no unnecessary tension.

- Do you still feel any pain from the betrayal by your [former] mentor?

- Yes, he was our boss, the person we would meet and plan our work with. Unfortunately, he turned out to be an important figure in our service. In fact, he betrayed not only us personally and our colleagues (more than 10 people), but also the service itself, everything that many people worked for while not sparing themselves. That is the worst of all. He revealed a lot of information about how our work is organized, what methods we use in intelligence work. He caused a lot of damage to the entire service. I believe that each person is responsible for his own soul. The man who once betrayed is unlikely to find peace, his soul will never be able to calm down. As the Bible says, “what is the point if a man gains the whole world, but damages his soul?” Why betray someone, wanting to gain the whole world, if the soul will be injured and damaged?! That’s what I think. After his deed was done, he fled to another country and lives in a foreign land. If, of course, he is still alive because that’s not certain. There have been different rumors. But if he is alive, then his soul is not at peace. Because betrayal is a serious sin.

- Have you forgiven him?

- I think you can say that. After all, there is no reason to hold it inside yourself, and you need to forgive. And he will have his own judgment day. Judas was such a traitor to Christ! And how did he end his life?! The theme of betrayal is elaborated well in the Bible, for example, through the Pharisees who betrayed Christ.

- How has our country changed?

- The Soviet Union we lived in and left from was an atheist society. When we returned to Russia, we saw that a lot has changed, that religion, the church has gradually returned. And it is impressive, a large number of believers and traditions that have been spiritually revived. After all, religion has played an important role in our history. Dostoevsky said that the human soul is Christian by nature. The spiritual principle has returned to us. In other countries, I saw how religion is harmoniously intertwined with the rest of society. Now we have that here as well, and that is positive.

- Your new book The Encrypted Heart has been released, congratulations! What are the highlights of your new novel?

- Thank you for your compliment! The novel is written on a more up-to-date topic, but it is based on my thoughts, feelings, and experience. In my books, I try to focus on the role and position of women in intelligence, because that’s what is missing in our literary community. I wanted to show somebody who is our contemporary and works in such a complex profession as intelligence.

- Your wishes for our society as a whole?

- I would like to wish love to all people. This is a fundamental trait that we all need and a feeling that each of us experiences one way or another. I would also like to wish more self-assurance to everybody to believe that life will be better, that our society will become more humane and just. You need to have faith in your own family. I wish for people to find their soulmates and have strong marriages. To have more children because children are a joy. I wish everyone to find their right path in life and be happy.

- Does a person need faith in God?

- Of course, a person needs faith in God. It inspires us, calms us, rescues us. I wish everyone to find faith in God and walk the earthly path until we ascend to Heaven with God's help.